Gentlemen,
Since researchers at the École Polytechnique discovered Trans-Newtonian elements in the mid-30s, France has gone from strength to strength. This technology was revealed to the world in 1937 when Germany attacked us again, and we used it to comprehensively destroy their fleet in the North Sea. That war ended with Germany under French occupation, an occupation that continues to this day. We have spent the intervening years investigating these technologies, and the English and Americans have agreed to join forces under our leadership to exploit the cosmos. Now is the time for France to take her place not only among the nations, but among the stars!
So yes, the Aurora game ended up as a sequel to the RTW2 game, and it's now time to begin with the building of ships. I'm going to leave this in your hands. I've attached the starting database, so you can simply download it, unzip it, place it in your 1.12 Aurora game, and start designing vessels. Note that you'll need to design most of your own components, although I've pre-researched some basic stuff like the standard beam weapons. Post the resulting statblocks in this thread, and we as a group will decide what sort of ships we want. In some cases (transports) this should be pretty straightforward. In others (warships) it's going to require figuring out what sort of weapons we want to work with (beams, missiles, fighters), and then building the ships to use them. Feel free to do as much or as little building as you want. Also on the table is the general industrial/research direction we want to take, and the ground forces, if anyone is interested in building those. (If not, I'll just handle that myself.)
I plan to let this discussion run for the next week, with a possible extension if things haven't been settled. At that point, I'll take the general direction of the group and implement it in the master DB, then begin play. Because Aurora is a lot more free-form than RTW2, I don't have a defined time I'll play for. Probably until something interesting happens.
Do note that I plan to stay out of the discussion as much as possible, with a few exceptions. I'll audit all designs to make sure they make sense (so, for instance, a ship that's bigger than your shipyards won't be allowed) and I'll reject anything which requires too much micromanagement on my part. Yes, your 13-ship, 4-design survey squadron is very cool and would be very efficient, but running it is going to suck a lot of the fun out of the game for me, and that's bad for the longevity of the game, as well as being annoying.
Comments
awesome, I'll whip up a few designs this weekend. Will try to make them more... interesting than the hideous min-maxed bricks I usually use.
That's... big. I have on occasion built ships that size, but I don't think I've ever had a shipyard that big that early in the tech tree.
Also, to clear things up, this is the canonical epilogue for the RTW2 game.
This has been sadly quiet. I'll try to put something together tomorrow, if I get some free time.
I was just about to comment on that. Not quite sure how to go about solving it, because I don't want to inject too much of my approach, particularly into the warship side of things. I suppose I could see if I can get candidates from the AI.
Oh wow, just took a look at the DB. I'd suggest going all in on construction and research rate research for a loooong time, to overcome the disadvantage of starting with all-military techs. Maybe a diversion into max engine size and basic fuel efficiency?
Here's a survey ship design that might make sense. It's got enough range to do basic interstellar work, and the passive sensor might be good enough to see things before things see it (as long as you use 1hr sub-pulses while it's working).
Jean Ribault would be an excellent colony ship name, when it comes time to make those.
With you on research. The survey ship is different from how I usually build them, but it should work just fine.
Actually, I forgot to fix this before I sent the DB out, but I have instanted Jump Point Technology, all of the basic jump drive techs, Gravitation Survey Sensors and Small Jump Stabilization Module.
Oh, I'd like to see your designs for them. Haven't been super happy about mine: they're effective and take zero micro, but aren't terribly efficient.
Here’s the grav survey vessel from the high-tech game I’m putting together in 1.12. It’s obviously not something I’d build in our current game (because I can’t) but the basic philosophy is to try for smaller, dispersed units. The geosurvey ships are usually the same, except with the sensors swapped out:
Constellation class Gravitational Survey Vessel 6,000 tons 139 Crew 1,625.8 BP TCS 120 TH 221 EM 0
7680 km/s JR 3-750 Armour 1-29 Shields 0-0 HTK 37 Sensors 24/24/9/0 DCR 5 PPV 0
Maint Life 4.25 Years MSP 889 AFR 55% IFR 0.8% 1YR 79 5YR 1,183 Max Repair 276.48 MSP
Commander Control Rating 2 BRG SCI
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months Morale Check Required
J6000(3-750) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 6000 tons Distance 750k km Squadron Size 3
Inertial Fusion Drive EP460.80S (2) Power 921.6 Fuel Use 5.40% Signature 110.592 Explosion 6%
Fuel Capacity 761,000 Litres Range 422.8 billion km (637 days at full power)
CIWS-400 (1x10) Range 1000 km TS: 40,000 km/s ROF 5
EM Sensor EM1.0-24.0 (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 38.7m km
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-24.0 (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 38.7m km
Advanced Gravitational Sensors (3) 9 Survey Points Per Hour
ECM 40
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Looks like I won't be able to join the fun on this until sometime next week, as Hurricane Eta continues to mess with my real-world spaceship work. But I will try to play catchup when my schedule clears up.
Unfortunately*, my computer situation does not allow me to run Aurora. I'm still excited to follow this game and participate as best I can—I've already binged some AARs to experience the game vicariously, so I'll have some clue what's going on, and should be able to have some opinion on competing design proposals. But I probably won't be submitting any sketches of my own.
*Well, probably fortunately for my ability to get anything else done
Sad news from you both. I expect this to be extended for two weeks, as we do finally seem to be getting some discussion going.
I went in and adapted some of the AI designs that the game produces automatically. The general approach was to adhere as closely to the AI’s choices as I reasonably could, so long as the designs remained legal. (Most notably, I actually observed the tonnage cap.) Here are three 12,000 ton designs, which I’ve chosen to call cruisers. The first has a batter of 15 cm lasers for close-range work:
Clemenceau class Heavy Cruiser (P) 12,000 tons 411 Crew 1,346.2 BP TCS 240 TH 600 EM 0
2500 km/s Armour 3-46 Shields 0-0 HTK 84 Sensors 10/5/0/0 DCR 5 PPV 80
Maint Life 2.10 Years MSP 350 AFR 230% IFR 3.2% 1YR 106 5YR 1,591 Max Repair 100.00 MSP
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (3) Power 600.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 427,000 Litres Range 10.1 billion km (46 days at full power)
15.0cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser (16) Range 180,000km TS: 3,000 km/s Power 6-3 RM 30,000 km ROF 10
Beam Fire Control R192-TS3000 (2) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 3,000 km/s 71 67 63 59 55 52 48 44 40 36
Pebble Bed Reactor R3 (16) Total Power Output 48 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor AS46-R105 (1) GPS 6300 Range 46.1m km Resolution 105
EM Sensor EM1.0-5.0 (1) Sensitivity 5.0 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 17.7m km
Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1) Sensitivity 10 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 25m km
The second is intended for missile strikes, using Size 5 missiles:
Foch class Strike Cruiser (P) 12,000 tons 329 Crew 1,349.6 BP TCS 240 TH 600 EM 0
2500 km/s Armour 3-46 Shields 0-0 HTK 81 Sensors 5/5/0/0 DCR 5 PPV 60
Maint Life 1.90 Years MSP 351 AFR 230% IFR 3.2% 1YR 126 5YR 1,883 Max Repair 100.00 MSP
Magazine 740
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (3) Power 600.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 427,000 Litres Range 10.1 billion km (46 days at full power)
Size 5 Missile Launcher (12) Missile Size: 5 Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC53-R105 (2) Range 53.2m km Resolution 105
Active Search Sensor AS46-R105 (1) GPS 6300 Range 46.1m km Resolution 105
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-5.0 (1) Sensitivity 5.0 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 17.7m km
EM Sensor EM1.0-5.0 (1) Sensitivity 5.0 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 17.7m km
Lastly, here’s an AMM cruiser, for missile defense:
Jeanne d’Arc class Escort Cruiser (P) 12,000 tons 234 Crew 1,332.7 BP TCS 240 TH 600 EM 0
2500 km/s Armour 3-46 Shields 0-0 HTK 77 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 5 PPV 16
Maint Life 1.80 Years MSP 347 AFR 230% IFR 3.2% 1YR 134 5YR 2,005 Max Repair 100.00 MSP
Magazine 1,325
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (3) Power 600.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 542,000 Litres Range 12.9 billion km (59 days at full power)
Size 1 Missile Launcher (16) Missile Size: 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC13-R1 (4) Range 13.8m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (1) GPS 90 Range 12m km MCR 1.1m km Resolution 1
There are a couple of other designs, which I expect to update to 8,000-ton destroyers. (8,000 tons because it lets me go from 3 engines to 2 while keeping the same speed.)
Oh wow, that survey ship is much more independent! Mine rely on commercial jump tender stations (and fuel balloons) towed to the exploration front, which takes a little more micro but speeds up development; cargo, colony, terraforming, and mining can all be brought up before the JPs are stabilized.
Yeah. All of my survey ships have jump drives, pretty much without exception. I do sometimes use jump tenders, but only for colonization.
I don't have a ton of time tonight, but I've at least updated the game and loaded up the save file. So here's a few bits and bobs to consider.
Asterix Anti-Ship Missile Missile Size: 5.00 MSP (12.500 Tons) Warhead: 9 Radiation Damage: 9 Manoeuvre Rating: 14 Speed: 8 400 km/s Fuel: 1 500 Flight Time: 86 minutes Range: 43.2m km Cost Per Missile: 3.684 Development Cost: 368 Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 117.6% 3k km/s 39.2% 5k km/s 23.5% 10k km/s 11.8%
(Specs: 0.6 fuel, 2.25 warhead, 0.4 agility, 1.75 engine @300%)
I'd hold off on this design until you get better warhead strength per MSP - there's too little maneuverability right now. But it's there if you want to build a Foch.
Dogmatix Anti-Missile Missile Missile Size: 1.00 MSP (2.500 Tons) Warhead: 1 Radiation Damage: 1 Manoeuvre Rating: 20 Speed: 16 000 km/s Fuel: 125 Flight Time: 3 minutes Range: 2.81m km Cost Per Missile: 0.842 Development Cost: 84 Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 320% 3k km/s 106.7% 5k km/s 64.0% 10k km/s 32.0%
(Specs: 0.05 fuel, 0.25 warhead, 0.2 agility, 0.5 engine @400%)
This seems decent enough.
Chevalier class Fighter (P) 465 tons 7 Crew 54.6 BP TCS 9 TH 48 EM 0 5166 km/s Armour 1-5 Shields 0-0 HTK 1 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0 PPV 4.5 Maint Life 3.35 Years MSP 7 AFR 17% IFR 0.2% 1YR 1 5YR 14 Max Repair 24.00 MSP Magazine 30
Capitaine de corvette Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP48.00 (1) Power 48.0 Fuel Use 1032.80% Signature 48.00 Explosion 20% Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres Range 0.38 billion km (20 hours at full power)
Size 1 Box Launcher (30) Missile Size: 1 Hangar Reload 50 minutes MF Reload 8 hours Missile Fire Control FC2-R1 (1) Range 2.5m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS1-R1 (1) GPS 1 Range 1.3m km MCR 113.5k km Resolution 1 Thermal Sensor TH0.1-0.5 (1) Sensitivity 0.5 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 5.6m km
This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
A couple small sensors, and a size 3 engine. This is basically a fighter-bomber, in practice.
Are you reserving Getafix for some kind of sensor drone?
Is the fighter made for a commercial hangar? It's got the maint life and deploy time (tho not the msp to cover a failure).
If it's gonna be in a mil hangar you could squeeze some more performance out by cutting the deploy time to ~.1, and maybe ditching the fighter engineering space entirely.
Alsadius: good idea for a naming convention, but you should use the original names, not the translated English ones.
Right. Destroyer time!
First, the Dunkerque-class DE, designed to use laser turrets:
Dunkerque class Destroyer Escort (P) 8,000 tons 223 Crew 993.7 BP TCS 160 TH 400 EM 0
2500 km/s Armour 3-35 Shields 0-0 HTK 51 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 4 PPV 48.96
Maint Life 2.41 Years MSP 310 AFR 128% IFR 1.8% 1YR 73 5YR 1,097 Max Repair 100.00 MSP
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (2) Power 400.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 281,000 Litres Range 10 billion km (46 days at full power)
Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (6x2) Range 48,000km TS: 12000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 30,000 km ROF 5
Beam Fire Control R48-TS12000 (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 12,000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor R6 (6) Total Power Output 37.2 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (1) GPS 90 Range 12m km MCR 1.1m km Resolution 1
The second destroyer is built to fill a similar role, but using 10 cm railguns:
Toulouse class Destroyer Escort (P) 8,000 tons 273 Crew 833.4 BP TCS 160 TH 400 EM 0
2500 km/s Armour 2-35 Shields 0-0 HTK 58 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 4 PPV 51
Maint Life 2.54 Years MSP 260 AFR 128% IFR 1.8% 1YR 56 5YR 845 Max Repair 100.00 MSP
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (2) Power 400.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 408,000 Litres Range 14.5 billion km (67 days at full power)
10cm Railgun V10/C3 (17x4) Range 10,000km TS: 3,000 km/s Power 3-3 RM 10,000 km ROF 5
Beam Fire Control R48-TS3000 (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 3,000 km/s 59 44 28 12 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor R12 (4) Total Power Output 49.2 Exp 5%
Pebble Bed Reactor R6 (1) Total Power Output 6.2 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor AS11-R1 (1) GPS 90 Range 12m km MCR 1.1m km Resolution 1
Lastly, an offensive missile destroyer:
Epee class Missile Destroyer (P) 8,000 tons 201 Crew 897.7 BP TCS 160 TH 400 EM 0
2500 km/s Armour 2-35 Shields 0-0 HTK 51 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 4 PPV 30
Maint Life 2.30 Years MSP 280 AFR 128% IFR 1.8% 1YR 72 5YR 1,076 Max Repair 100.00 MSP
Magazine 710
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (2) Power 400.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 291,000 Litres Range 10.4 billion km (47 days at full power)
Size 5 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size: 5 Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC53-R105 (1) Range 53.2m km Resolution 105
Active Search Sensor AS46-R105 (1) GPS 6300 Range 46.1m km Resolution 105
All of these are preliminary, and I'm happy to do variations on them, or on the cruisers.
It's been too long since I played, I forgot to adjust the deployment time. Knocking the Chevalier down to 0.1 months with no engineering space, it's 448 tons and 5364 m/s, and still only a 1.2% IFR. That seems better.
Regarding the Asterix references, I've never actually read it. I just wanted something French as a naming scheme, and it felt fitting.
Since I specced out fighters above, I'll also include a companion carrier, in the same size range as the destroyers. This one should carry six Chevaliers, with one reload for their missiles, and some passive sensors to help the fleet.
Clemenceau class Escort Carrier (P) 8 000 tons 126 Crew 791 BP TCS 160 TH 400 EM 0 2500 km/s Armour 2-35 Shields 0-0 HTK 47 Sensors 5/5/0/0 DCR 3 PPV 0 Maint Life 2.89 Years MSP 745 AFR 171% IFR 2.4% 1YR 132 5YR 1 973 Max Repair 100 MSP Hangar Deck Capacity 3 000 tons Magazine 180
Capitaine de frégate Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months Flight Crew Berths 60 Morale Check Required
Nuclear Pulse Engine EP200.00 (2) Power 400.0 Fuel Use 63.25% Signature 200.00 Explosion 10% Fuel Capacity 456 000 Litres Range 16.2 billion km (75 days at full power)
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-5.0 (1) Sensitivity 5.0 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 17.7m km EM Sensor EM1.0-5.0 (1) Sensitivity 5.0 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 17.7m km
This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
Also, let's have some civilian ships. These have the same base hull, with 50k tons reserved for the cargo package of choice (and slight adjustments to fuel based on crew need).
Coureur des Bois class Transport 72 000 tons 218 Crew 809.2 BP TCS 1 440 TH 1 400 EM 0 972 km/s Armour 1-154 Shields 0-0 HTK 109 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 1 PPV 0 MSP 7 Max Repair 50 MSP Cargo 50 000 Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3
Capitaine de corvette Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months
Commercial Nuclear Pulse Engine EP100.0 (14) Power 1400 Fuel Use 11.18% Signature 100 Explosion 5% Fuel Capacity 1 300 000 Litres Range 29.1 billion km (346 days at full power)
This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
Champlain class Colony Ship 72 000 tons 408 Crew 2 754.3 BP TCS 1 440 TH 1 400 EM 0 972 km/s Armour 1-154 Shields 0-0 HTK 126 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 1 PPV 0 MSP 23 Max Repair 100 MSP Cryogenic Berths 200 000 Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 3
Capitaine de corvette Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months
Commercial Nuclear Pulse Engine EP100.0 (14) Power 1400 Fuel Use 11.18% Signature 100 Explosion 5% Fuel Capacity 1 025 000 Litres Range 22.9 billion km (272 days at full power)
This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
Any plans to use the (re)new formation system this game? I'm playing with some outrider designs for letting my slow siege wing max out the missile tracking bonus.
Want to try using utility fighters more, to save the hassle of retooling shipyards for larger ships.
Hey, if you design it, I'll use it. I've got sketches for something similar in my current game, although I haven't implemented it yet. Among other things, have yet to run into anyone who actually uses missiles.
Right. Since we're starting to get close to play, it's time to actually work out which ships we're going to build. We have a total of 43,350 BP, which we can allocate between any of the ships here, or any others you may suggest. Some should probably be held back for the Army, but we can always just build ground units after play starts, too.
Remind me what the pros and cons are between lasers and railguns?
@Placid Platypus The main tradeoff is that lasers have longer range, but railguns do more total damage. Lasers are also generally better at penetrating armor. They also can be mounted spinally (max one per ship, lets you effectively put a bigger laser than you've actually researched) or in turrets for better tracking speed.
It's also worth noting that railgun research shares a specialty with missiles and gauss cannons, while lasers share a specialty with the other beam weapon types.
We don't actually have offensive railgun tech. For defensive purposes, the railguns fire a lot faster, but can't be turreted. I go into more detail here.
I'm a huge fan of railguns generally. Good ships are generally fast enough (~500km/s*engine tech power) that turrets on anti-ship weapons are pointless, and the focal size bonus to spinal mounts just cripples a weapon's DPI/HS
Railguns are also surprisingly good at PD, so even the main battery can contribute meaningfully at missile ranges.
I tend not to build anything but tugs, miners, harvesters, colony ships, and squadrons of 5x freighters for the first decade+, with a box-magazine missile boat for early encounters after leaving Sol. Won't comment on gameplay much, because it'll be cool to see the way you guys play.
Comparing Dunkerque (laser DDE) and Toulouse (railgun DDE), Toulouse has ~40% more missile-killing power (17*4/12 times the shots at 1/4 the accuracy) for ~85% of the cost, but is in much more trouble if enemy missiles have ECM. Dunkerque also has an extra layer of armor. I'm probably still inclined to go with the raw output of Toulouse, but there's something to be said for expecting the worst.
(assuming we want either at this point)
I'd definitely vote for a Toulouse, but given a BFC with 5-8kkm tracking; its railguns will keep getting better as research increases our minimum racial tracking speed.
It can also be cheaply refitted with eccm-1 and a CIC at some point, remaining useful as a planetary siege escort for the next 50-100 years.
In fairness, anyone who has ECM in their missiles is probably playing the game at the sort of level where we're already doomed.
plus AMM spam is the biggest missile threat you have to defend against, the way it's balanced now. And they won't ever have ecm.
There's a type of missile I'd like to suggest once we get to ion, designed to be box-salvoed from just outside of AMM range.
Or from just outside of max beam range, if we meet you-know-who.
Current plan for tomorrow is to post an updated database with all of the submitted designs in it. That should make it easier to play around with, and figure out the actual fleet we want.