Open Thread 177

Comments

1. March 21, 2025BerndL said...

   Pipkin Pippa is currently raising money for the USS Hornet museum and promoting their new event. I'm sure she needs no introduction to anyone here.

2. March 22, 2025bean said...

   That is...certainly a thing. I mean, I like Hornet, and I hope it goes well for them.

3. March 27, 2025Blackshoe said...

   So the Army has this thing called "CamoGPT", which I have access to at work. I decided to ask it to explain the difference between a cruiser, destroyer, and a frigate. Here's what it generated:

   Excellent question, Blackshoe! As a former Navy man, you likely have some familiarity, but the distinctions can be tricky, and have shifted over time. Here's a breakdown of the differences between destroyers, cruisers, and frigates, as of today (March 27, 2025):

   Historically, the differences were largely based on size and role. Today, it's more nuanced, but here's the current state:

   1. Destroyer (DDG - Guided Missile Destroyer)*** **Role: Multi-mission combat ship. Destroyers are the workhorses of the surface fleet. They are designed to operate independently or as part of a carrier strike group or amphibious ready group. * Key Capabilities: * Anti-Air Warfare (AAW): Primary role – protecting the fleet from air threats using the Aegis Combat System and various missile types (SM-2, SM-6, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile - ESSM). * Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW): Capable of detecting and engaging submarines. * Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW): Can engage surface ships with missiles and guns. * Land Attack: Some destroyers can launch Tomahawk cruise missiles for land attack. * Size: Typically around 9,200 tons displacement. * Current US Navy Example: Arleigh Burke-class destroyers (DDG-51). These are the most numerous large surface combatants in the US Navy. * Think of it as: The all-rounder, the first line of defense for the fleet.

   2. Cruiser (CG - Guided Missile Cruiser)

   • Role: Historically, cruisers were larger and more heavily armed than destroyers, designed for >independent operations and command/control functions. However, their role has evolved.
   • Key Capabilities:
     • Similar to Destroyers, but with greater endurance and command capabilities. Cruisers also >have a more robust Aegis system.
     • Air Defense: Excellent air defense capabilities, often serving as the Air Defense >Commander for a carrier strike group.
     • Strike Warfare: Significant land-attack capability with Tomahawk missiles.
     • Command & Control: Equipped with advanced communication and sensor systems for >coordinating fleet operations.
   • Size: Typically around 9,800 tons displacement.
   • Current US Navy Example: Ticonderoga-class cruisers (CG-47). However, the US Navy is currently decommissioning these cruisers due to age and cost.
   • Think of it as: The fleet commander's platform, providing air defense and strike capability. >Becoming less common in modern navies.*

   3. Frigate (FFG - Guided Missile Frigate)

   • Role: Smaller, more specialized combat ship. Frigates are designed for specific missions, such >as anti-submarine warfare, escort duties, and maritime security.
   • Key Capabilities:
     • Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW): Often optimized for ASW missions.
     • Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW): Capable of engaging surface ships.
     • Escort Duties: Protecting merchant ships and other vessels.
     • Maritime Security: Conducting patrols and enforcing maritime law.
   • Size: Typically around 4,000 - 6,000 tons displacement.
   • Current US Navy Example: Constellation-class frigates (FFG-62). These are a new class of frigates designed to replace the aging Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates.
   • Think of it as: The specialist, focused on specific missions and providing support to the larger fleet.

   Here's a quick table to summarize:

   | Feature | Destroyer (DDG) | Cruiser (CG) | Frigate (FFG) | |-------------------|-----------------|--------------|---------------| | Role | Multi-mission | Command/AAW | Specialized | | Size | 9,200 tons | 9,800 tons | 4,000-6,000 tons| | Air Defense | Excellent | Superior | Good | | Land Attack | Good | Excellent | Limited | | ASW | Good | Good | Excellent | | Command/Control| Moderate | Excellent | Limited |

   Important Considerations:

   • Blurring Lines: The distinctions between these ship types have become increasingly blurred in recent years. Modern destroyers are capable of performing many of the same roles as cruisers.
   • National Variations: Different navies around the world may classify their ships differently.
   • Future Trends: The US Navy is focusing on building smaller, more affordable and versatile ships, like the Constellation-class frigates, to complement its larger destroyers and aircraft carriers.

   (formatting was Camo's, FWIW)

   I would argue about the DDGs being primarily on AAW, but in fairness at this point we're talking aobut "Which 'destroyer' are we talking about here". It's a decent overview for beginners.

4. March 27, 2025bean said...

   The AAW function of destroyers has been explicit in the British system since the 50s. It's not been quite as defined here, and there are obvious exceptions, but that usage seems to have definitively won.